Issues and Disappointment

[Thunor Stryker]

I am a little disappointed. I had sent PMs to the senior leadership with no response about looking through the awards and I having a couple of questions. Why was I never added the the original 25 or 50 award? I have been with the fleet since Beta back in 2009. Although I do not get the opportunity to play as often as I like I believe I have always met the requirement as an active member. Also the recruiter badges. I recruited (in the beginning) Wolf Ferir, Odin, and a few others. I would also like to respectfully nominate myself for the STF Medal 8472 as well.

Also as vacations, work, and school wind down for me I am interested in trying to be more active in the Fleet come September. If I could get some suggestions how I might accomplish this it would be greatly appreciated.

I already know I am setting myself up for reticule and snarky remarks for this rant/gripe.


Respectfully,

Thunor Stryker

Captain 7th Fleet

U.S.S. Massachusetts Commanding

[VADM pRett]

My intent in this response is not to be snarky.

That being said, you sent your question over my head directly to the Admiralty when I, as the Chief of Staff, should have been the first person for you to bring it to. I debated briefly deleting this post and addressing this in private, which might have been the better way to go. I have, however, always supported and encouraged transparency as much as possible from the top down.

[Morgan Shackelford]

CoyoteMopar wrote:

I had sent PMs to the senior leadership with no response ...

This is not atypical. I can tell you that from my experience, unless the sky is literally falling, a direct, PM'd response from the FA or DC is highly unlikely. Nonetheless, I can guarantee the following:

1) the message was read.
2) there will be a response - it's simply that it may not be the response you were expecting. That is not meant to be threatening in any way; what I am saying is that you seem to assume that a response would come via another PM from them - it very likely wouldn't; the issue would more likely be brought up with senior staff like Admiral P'rett or myself via personal conversation on ventrilo. At that point, appropriate response would be given, whether that be giving certain awards or other private communications to you via the CoS.

CoyoteMopar wrote:

Why was I never added the the original 25 or 50 award? I have been with the fleet since Beta back in 2009.

The prime Fleet member was Admiral Angus Turner, join date of 6/7/2009. Your join date is 12/29/2009.

The awards for the original 25 members were issued 11/3/2009. The awards for the original 50 members were issued 12/21/2009 - both prior to your join date of record.

Captain Mac Ardell has the same join date as you; and he also has neither the 25 or the 50 award. Both of you, however, do have the 'Beta Ops' award.

It is not outside the realm of possibility that a mistake was made in either the Founder 25 or Founder 50 awards; however we are fully 32 months beyond those awards having been issued. So having brought this up in a public forum, I would hope you've thought this through and are fully prepared to answer the question of why are you bringing this up now, and not at the time of issuance? This would've been much easier to verify and correct at the time. While we do keep fairly good records, we are not the DMV or some other government agency who has to keep any kind of record at all. Most gaming guilds do no such thing whatsoever.

CoyoteMopar wrote:

Although I do not get the opportunity to play as often as I like I believe I have always met the requirement as an active member.

If you didn't meet the requirements, you likely wouldn't be here. All we have ever truly asked is the mildest form of participation and communication.

CoyoteMopar wrote:

Also the recruiter badges. I recruited (in the beginning) Wolf Ferir, Odin, and a few others.

Again, this is not meant as some slight to you personally. The Recruiter awards were created well after you, Fenrir, or Odin joined the Fleet. The awards were created roughly Summer of 2011.

It was not our intent upon establishing the recruiter awards to scour every single application from the previous year and a half looking for references in order to retroactively award this to anyone who had previously recruited someone for the Fleet. The Recruiter awards were meant to be awarded to anyone who recruited members going forward from the date of the award's creation.

So, in order to be eligible for this particular award, you must have recruited someone after the award itself existed, and they must specifically name you as their point of contact in their application.

CoyoteMopar wrote:

I would also like to respectfully nominate myself for the STF Medal 8472 as well.

Typically this is most often awarded when a full squad of Fleet members completes the mission. It is not a requirement that this be the case; however, if you complete it outside of the Fleet, we won't know to issue this until you ask for it.

CoyoteMopar wrote:

Also as vacations, work, and school wind down for me I am interested in trying to be more active in the Fleet come September. If I could get some suggestions how I might accomplish this it would be greatly appreciated.

When you are playing, get in ventrilo and talk to people. That, more than anything, is going to get you involved. Keep an eye on the forum calendar for upcoming events; we typically have a lot of people around for anything that is sponsored by the Fleet Admiral.

CoyoteMopar wrote:

I already know I am setting myself up for reticule and snarky remarks for this rant/gripe.

I don't believe either myself or Admiral P'rett have given you any attitude or snark up to this particular point. Snark would be saying something like 'I think you mean ridicule. A reticule is something you use when aiming a weapon.' So there's some snark for you, aimed back in the passive aggressive manner in which your fear displayed itself.

But yes, you should expect it. You've made several mis-steps in posting this. First and foremost, calling out the FA and DC in a manner which attempts - whether forethought or not - to undermine their authority and leadership.

Your second mis-step is the actual accusal itself. It's rich. Pot, meet kettle. The admiralty of this fleet is far more communicative than you yourself are. In 32 months you've made a total of 228 posts in the Fleet forums. Compare that to Fleet Admiral Fortin, who has made 740. Deputy Commander Van Wormer has made 693. Admiral P'rett joined 8 months after you, and he's made 997 posts. Personally, I have made 1879.

You choose your own level of involvement.

So if you're disappointed, well, I guess that makes 2 of us. You very rarely play with us, you almost never log into ventrilo, but you want to complain - in a public setting - about participation awards and lack of communication from leadership. Do you expect those of us who have poured blood, sweat, and tears into the Fleet to take that lying down?

If you want to move forward and become more involved with us, make no mistake - I relish the thought you might do so. You seem like a good guy, for the most part - but that's my point - I honestly don't really know.

[Thunor Stryker]

I will admit to skirting the chain of command with my direct PM to the Admiralty and I apologize Admiral PRett. But why should I not expect a response from my superiors after 5-7 days?

As for the manner of snarkiness when suggestions, comments, I have seen with my very few post this happen in the past. With regards to the banking system and latest, with the contributions to the StarBase. Just because I do not have a thousand posts in the forum makes no difference. I do participate in events, maybe not as often as I would like but real world takes precedence. I have always tried to take it in stride.

I will make the attempt to be a better officer and better represent the Fleet and log into the Vent more often.

Respectfully,

Thunor Stryker

Captain 7th Fleet

U.S.S. Massachusetts Commanding

[CAPT Huckabee]

sparrow794 wrote:

So if you're disappointed, well, I guess that makes 2 of us. You very rarely play with us, you almost never log into ventrilo, but you want to complain - in a public setting - about participation awards and lack of communication from leadership. Do you expect those of us who have poured blood, sweat, and tears into the Fleet to take that lying down?

This^^^^

Seriously?? So many good points were made to you. I'm seeing a trend in the post you do make, and I can see where you would get your always getting snark replies

[Thunor Stryker]

You are correct....Seriously... The post I do make are usually suggestions how to better the fleet or an idea. Quickly shot down and ridiculed due to not being in with the sheep.

For the record I have been on vent, asked what is going on and met with crickets... Not to mention people playing other games in the fleet vent.

Just say'in. Some people may want to step off their pedestal for a moment.

[VADM pRett]

CoyoteMopar wrote:

Quickly shot down and ridiculed due to not being in with the sheep. For the record I have been on vent, asked what is going on and met with crickets... Not to mention people playing other games in the fleet vent. Just say'in. Some people may want to step off their pedestal for a moment.

This tone doesn't help your cause any. If you're looking to alienate Fleet members, broadly labeling them as "sheep" is certainly a way to do it.

Quote:

I already know I am setting myself up for reticule and snarky remarks for this rant/gripe.

If you expected them, it almost begs the question if you were trying to draw them out to give you a reason to retaliate, aka "trolling."

As to this question -

Quote:

But why should I not expect a response from my superiors after 5-7 days?

I'll flip that around on you - have you always been able to respond within that 5-7 days? Both the Fleet Admiral and Deputy Commander are both busy gentlemen outside of STO. I, however, am on the forums a lot (which you might have noticed, if you'd taken the time.) I am also the person you need to approach first - something else I've emphasized on these forums more than once. You've put your foot in it, and when called on it, start to backpedal and get uber-defensive.

If new members had experienced difficulty getting into activities with the Fleet, I'd say your complaint/gripe had merit. The fact is, though, we have had several outstanding new members make the effort to get involved and have succeeded.

Quote:

For the record I have been on vent, asked what is going on and met with crickets.

I believe I was on Vent at least one time recently when you asked what was going on. I'm not 100% sure why no one responded within a few minutes - we may have been involved in a Fleet Starbase action. If so, and we were all in Starbase 643, that was a foul on our part, as we're supposed to be in one of the channels (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie or Delta) if we have a group doing something. You could have also asked in Fleet chat or PM'd someone you saw was online.

As to your response, Huck -

Quote:

Seriously?? So many good points were made to you. I'm seeing a trend in the post you do make, and I can see where you would get your always getting snark replies

While I understand your frustration, this isn't a constructive response, nor does it really address any of his questions/comments.

Back to the subject at hand, Mister Stryker, Fleet leadership will generally consider any suggestion or idea. What we don't care for are people that stir up trouble for little to no value added.

Shack can be one of the biggest pains in the ass, much like myself, I might add, but what he does for this Fleet and its members gives him a bye in most regards. He knows where that line is, and pretty much stays on the side he needs to. He's also very blunt, and doesn't mince words. You should be thankful for that, as you'll never have to wonder where you stand with him. He's given you a very to-the-point response to your post, and you haven't really addressed anything he's said to you.

So, the ball is in your court - what are you going to do with it?

[Thunor Stryker]

I will stand by my statement of meeting ridicule when making suggestions within the forum and new ideas should never be quashed or met with ridicule.

I have ALWAYS responded to subordinates when I was a ask force commander within a reasonable amount of time. For the record I did make a point of PM'ing when it appeared they were online.

The incidents in question, while on vent, asking what was going on was in StarBase 643.

In the end I will just do my best to be more involved and better myself for the good of the fleet. Again I was wrong for jumping the chain of command, my apologies. I also apologize for what can be construed as being a trolling by my own non productive remarks.

I will be more than happy to by the fleet a round as soon as the bartender is stocked at our StarBase!

[Runaz]

as much as i love things being talked out, this is a public forum and our new members and potential members do not need to see this. request it be taken to a vent channel or pm's

[VADM pRett]

S.K. Runaz wrote:

as much as i love things being talked out, this is a public forum and our new members and potential members do not need to see this. request it be taken to a vent channel or pm's

As I said in my initial post, I am a firm believer in transparency when possible. I'd like to think it will help newer members get a feel for how issues are worked out. Also, Mr Stryker, himself, brought this to the public forum, so unless it gets really ugly or non-productive, it will remain in the public eye.

Speaking from experience, when a lot of stuff seems to get swept behind closed doors or under the carpet, it's left me feeling distrustful of the leadership of any guild/fleet/etc I've been a member of.

[Runaz]

Adm pRett wrote:

S.K. Runaz wrote: as much as i love things being talked out, this is a public forum and our new members and potential members do not need to see this. request it be taken to a vent channel or pm's As I said in my initial post, I am a firm believer in transparency when possible. I'd like to think it will help newer members get a feel for how issues are worked out. Also, Mr Stryker, himself, brought this to the public forum, so unless it gets really ugly or non-productive, it will remain in the public eye. Speaking from experience, when a lot of stuff seems to get swept behind closed doors or under the carpet, it's left me feeling distrustful of the leadership of any guild/fleet/etc I've been a member of.

understood admiral just giving my opinion

[Kazzodoom]

Hi All,

Speaking only for myself as a new member I think that seeing this discussion is useful and informative about the lines of communication and to better understand the command structure of the fleet that I am proud to be part of.

And that is the only part of the discussion that I feel I can weigh in on.

[Lang S]

We use to have a welcome package with tons of information. it may need to be updated if it still around.

[Kazzodoom]

I have the information package and it is great, but this is very illuminating. For instance it never occurred to me that the fleet Admiral and the CoS would be different people. Although it makes a lot of sense.

I will need to go back and have another read at the info pack with the insights this string has generated.

[VADM JT Kerry]

Adm pRett wrote:

Speaking from experience, when a lot of stuff seems to get swept behind closed doors or under the carpet, it's left me feeling distrustful of the leadership of any guild/fleet/etc I've been a member of.

Just to note - what you read below, imagine in a calm and happy voice (my wife says I need to find my happy place so please laugh- it makes life go by so much nicer - and laugh in battle, because you want your enemies to think you are insane!)

Just putting this out there because I feel this should be a non-issue, and detracts from what we are all here for - to have fun.

First, Mr. Stryker, I understand you feel like you are missing something by not getting what you feel you deserve. That's cool. I can understand wanting recognition among your peers and superiors. But consider this, I went almost a year without half of the recognition slathered on my namebar. Why? Well, because it didn't matter. I was busy playing and having fun. It's a game for crying out loud. No need to go Jonesing about.

Second, I brought the fact that I had a woefully small namebar to the attention of the first link up the chain of command. The Fleet Captain in charge of that area. We went over what I had done and he had it corrected. I didn't place any conditions on it. I figured he would get to it eventually. We have a newly formatted and completely revamped Fleet Operations Manual, which, in great detail, lays out who does what. I know it reads like an Army Technical Manual, but it is short and not too painful to get through (laugh Mr. Shackelford - you did us a great service with your work, and I sincerely appreciate it). It even laid out things I didn't know I was supposed to be doing, but that's fine. Below is a link to the document through my Skydrive - the current front page link is broken:
https://skydrive.live.com/embed?cid=39A2E34954B968B0&resid=39A2E34954B968B0%21231&authkey=AI2gyqyXjNjHO8M
I enjoy helping my fellow Fleetmates. It is part of the game, making sure we all can play. I find it exciting to see 20 people, or more, logged into Vent at once. And again, the point is to have fun - its a game.

And Third, and last, I say this with all due humility, it is always better to kill someone with kindness than to go stormin' Norman on them. In other words, find your happy place. Ask and not demand. And think of that phrase called the Golden Rule, before your rant on other Fleetmates. Remember this, all of us are volunteers, we are here for our own enjoyment as well as helping you with yours. So, when we are not engaged in War Games, we should alot eachother a bit civility. If there is a problem, it is more like to get corrected and quicker, if you are polite. This is a place to make friends. Sit back, laugh and remember - this is a game - have fun.

JT